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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  Royce R on Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:54 pm

I think if you put everything out there where everyone knows exactly what is going on it will be simpler for everyone involved.
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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  Joe on Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:56 pm

MickeyD wrote:Wow! That's pretty much what I explained to you guys on how recruiting was going this year (with the exception of allowing that 5 promise/pitch) as some of you guys continually shot it down. I just don't get how that is a million times better than what I was doing.

I think after the first year it works great. Right now, nobody has credibility. If we do this after the first season, teams will be preranked, and therefore the promises mean a little more or little less, depending on your first year. If we have something to go off of, we all go into it knowing what our team can expect? Does this make sense? i know what I mean, just dont know if Im making sense Rolling Eyes
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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  MickeyD on Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:57 pm

Where you were on the recruits list should have really told you. Royce, if I put you at the top of the list just because you did every pitch in the books, it wouldn't be fair. This is where perhaps a 5 pitch/5 promise system will help us.

If we do go this route next season, I will more than likely need help and I'll look to have you guys help me.
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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  Joe on Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:01 pm

Im in! Let me know what you need!
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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  MickeyD on Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:03 pm

I will once we have finalized exactly what we are going to do and how we are going to do it when next recruiting period comes along.
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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  Royce R on Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:05 pm

Thats where your being inconsistent. First week players I tried to be realistic and only pitch/promise a few things that I thought I could do. By the 3rd week I was frustrated and pitched/promised the world and only moved down further. So really you weren't setting a value on each pitch. Because you say you can't move everyone up for pitching everything.

Look I know its about impossible to do the recruiting because I got copies of a few peoples recruiting pitches. There was no uniformity going into it so you had to compare/contrast recruiting styles. To much work for you to do and try to be objective.

I'm just trying to show you how frustrating it was being on our end also. Because we really didn't know what to expect. Not trying to run you down at all because there is a lot of worked involved in what your doing.

If we put together a system based on points per pitch/promise. And put a maximum p/p per day. Then there will be a strategy to recruiting. And fair points system because everyone will have to pull stuff from the list to use. No more essay reading for you or whoever is doing the recruiting.

Everyone will know how many points they will have on each player before each days results come out.
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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  MickeyD on Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:18 pm

Forgive my rant and I know I'm gonna make a lot of you really mad by doing this but, you don't know how much work I was putting into that thing. I have 2 AP classes and a college level class to do homework in (as well as a gf that won't leave me alone) and this takes me the better part of 4 hours every night. What really gets me mad is the fact that you guys are just expecting that if you throw every thing but the kitchen sink at every recruit, you're going to get him. That's not how it works in real life and that is especially not how it works here.

I've worked hard for the last couple of weeks creating this recruiting tool and sim software and I haven't received a single thank you from any of you guys. I've only been ridiculed and thrown down. I like your idea...and I think it'll work next year, but this year, you shouldn't have been expecting anything that is realistic. You expect just that you will be the best because you throw every pitch at a recruit. It just dosen't work that way.

You expect that higher rated recruits take longer just because they are that much more better than everyone else...where do you stop treating recruits like that? How do you determine who is better? How does the fact that the length a recruit is out there is solely based on how many teams are recruiting them go against anything I said before that?

Forgive that rant, but it needed to be done.
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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  Royce R on Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:36 pm

See, you still didn't read what I posted.

I said I started out not pitching a lot of stuff because I wanted to be realistic with what I was doing.

then I changed because you said its strictly based on points per pitch.

Which you have now said twice that it isn't.

So basically we still have no idea how you were rating the recruits. You decide if we are pitching just right, not enough, or too much. But yet none of us know how that works.

I offered my help from the very beginning to run the recruiting if you wanted. You declined it so why should I feel sorry about how much time you spend on the recruiting? I wanted you to back it off a day or two so we could get it straightened out.
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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  MickeyD on Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:45 pm

I don't need to take this....you guys can go find another college basketball sim league. Obviously I added on a limit to how many pitches a recruit would want to take every day and it would eventually lower your points. There I said it, although I thought that would be implied based on how recruits were reacting, I guess I was wrong. I didn't want to hand feed you guys everything. In real-life, that stuff isn't given to you. If you were a coach, you wouldn't know that stuff. I said it was a points based system, I didn't want to go into specifics because I wanted to make it realistic. Obviously you guys want to be given everything right to you to make it easier on yourself. If you were a real coach, you'd have to come up with your own pitches and promises and realize how the guys are reacting to what you are doing.
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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  Royce R on Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:47 pm

Ok, thanks for you time and good luck with the league.

Better revoke my draft pick.
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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  Joe on Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:51 pm

Thank You!! Very Happy


We all know this is a lot of work. But I would like to reply to a couple of your questions.

Where do you stop treating recruits like that? I believe I said top 10. Normally thats the ones you hear about realistically, the top 10. That is why I said that.

How do you determine who is better? Well thats different for everybody depending on their needs, but a general way to tell would be to look at the overall rating. 8.2>7.8

The last question... I dont know about that one.

Anyways Thank you for getting this going and workin ur ass off on it. We appreciate it, were just trying to work bugs out. Were not working against you, just trying to work with you!
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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  MickeyD on Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:53 pm

There is no need Royce, there isn't going to be a draft. There isn't going to be a league and everybody can thank you for that. This league didn't succeed because you didn't give it a chance. I wanted this to get off the ground more than anything as I love the college game. I see where the problems were, but I wasn't going to hand feed you guys anything like you expected me to...my point was realism and that's what it always was, since some of you can't take that this league is done.
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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  MickeyD on Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:54 pm

Thanks Joe for thanking me, that's all I really wanted.

I'm just so pissed beyond belief right now thanks to some people. Maybe I'll feel better in the morning and I'll give this thing another try then. I have a headache right now.
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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  MichaelD on Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:13 pm

Looks like someone has to play the role of mediator here. I personally believe both of you are overreacting. I'll agree with some points that Mickey made. I didn't want to get hand-fed anything. I wanted to be able to go out on my own. Actual coaches don't know how many "points" a certain pitch is going to be when it comes down to it. Mickey is overreacting here, we just can't get it through his noggin that we were trying to help make it better as opposed to criticizing what he was doing.
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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  MichaelD on Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:31 pm

I guess the damage has been done. I must've been too late.
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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  Joe on Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:33 pm

I dont think its done.. cooler heads will prevail!
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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  MichaelD on Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:35 pm

I sure hope so...there has to be some way to resolve this issue.
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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  Joe on Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:38 pm

In respnse to your other post Mike, I wasnt expecting to be hand fed. I was just tryng to establish some groundwork, as me and Royce were doing earlier. We had nothing to go off of and I personally dont see how throwing pitches blindly at someone how that would work. Mick says he had a system, but nobody knew anything about it. If we had something to go off of, it would have made it a lot more interesting.
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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  Joe on Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:38 pm

MichaelD wrote:I sure hope so...there has to be some way to resolve this issue.

We can do it!!
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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  Joe on Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:42 pm

I hope he does realize were not criticizing or arguing, just trying to help. With something brand new, theres going to be growing pains. There are a lot of people offering different ideas or suggestions and He needs to understand were not against him!
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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  MichaelD on Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:45 pm

I understand that, but I'm going to respectfully disagree. The mystery behind the system only led to my enjoyment. I guess we put a lot of pressure on Mick though. It is impossible to keep everyone happy in this league. I guess he was bound to crack at some point.
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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  Joe on Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:46 pm

Explain please Very Happy what part?
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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  MichaelD on Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:55 pm

What part? I'm not sure what your asking exactly, but I'll say that I liked the whole thing. Maybe what he could've added an interest bar to let people know where they were, but besides that I liked the system.

I'm gonna call Mick on his cell to see if I can try to talk some sense into him.
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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  Joe on Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:58 pm

Atta Boy... get em Uncle Mike! Im pullin for ya!
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Re: Pitches and Promises

Post  MichaelD on Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:12 pm

Well, I tried the first time and he was too busy talking to his girlfriend (who he does have a thing for no matter how many times he makes fun of her on here). So, I had to try again and I haven't talked to him when he was this upset before and in my opinion it really isn't anything to even have any bit of disdain for. He should be fine tomorrow, I've never seen him hold a grudge against someone over anything for more than about a day.
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